Metagame BDSP Ubers


Banned deucer.
I've seen funnier funerals than this meta. He died from day one. To play this better try with 4/5 gen. I find it very boring. I couldn't last more than a week. In my opinion, it does not seem like a serious or competitive tier. A few things aside, it literally feels like you're playing DPP/BW Ubers but on 8th gen. At least there is more variety in OU, which makes it more fun despite banning various things. Here I think most teams/strategies will be a bit like fighting the mirror. And if you want to be a little original, it usually doesn't work. There are few viable mons, like Smeargle as the only reliable web user or Forretress with TSpikes. Weezing is another topic apart, which works well against fairies as well. Now when Deoxys forms can be used nothing will change, it will be all HO with Deox-A/Deox-S/Deox-D+Gengar/EKiller ceus or something like that.

I wanted to share some teams in my short experience, but I think I deleted all of them. I remember the last one was a Sweb with Fairyceus CM+Cosmic Power +Mix ogre. Anyway, the ladder is also dead. This is only worth it if there is a tournament where BDSP Ubers is played.


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Ubers Leader
Hi, this thread has been kinda dead for a while, but hopefully we can breathe a bit of life back into it. After PL we decided to start a viability rankings and probably sample teams after, with a brand new council from the ground up.

Please welcome Darkrai Retribution, Kate, Lasen, Mr.378, Seldanna, and Wait2Seconds to join me on the council! VR slate is in progress, update should be ideally coming soon.


Finding my way
is a Tiering Contributor
UPL Champion
hello, I played BDSP PL a bit and spent the rest of the time helping my team around w the BDSP Uber slot.
Some thoughts :</p><p>Deoxys-Attack:
From the moment of release, it immediately became one of the most popular and used pokemon in the tier. Its immediate 180 base Attack and Special Attack stats with paper-thin defenses made it a glass cannon.
Immediately crushes Stall Teams (replay linked)
It holds A life orb most of the time even those 10 attacks are enough to destroy any mon. The checks of this thing are very limited due to the huge movepool it gets. No single Pokemon in the dex can check it on its own. A core of Dark-ceus + forretress MAY work if you switch into the move you can tank. IF they get the right move against the check it's almost the end of the game for you. Deo-A in the hands of a good player is very dangerous.
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 187-220 (52.8 - 62.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
148 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Forretress: 155-182 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
2hkoes most of the time.

148 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 354-416 (87.6 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Possible damage amounts: (354, 356, 361, 364, 369, 374, 377, 382, 385, 390, 395, 398, 403, 406, 411, 416)
cannot switch in
148 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Superpower over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Arceus-Dark: 514-606 (115.7 - 136.4%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 207-244 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-Attack Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 253-298 (60.8 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Only mon that can take 2 hits but No heavy-duty boots in BDSP so not really effective check after stealth rock.
with a core of 2 things it might be possible to keep it in check BUT then your team structure has 2 mons fixed (keep in mind you must keep in check other titans of the metagame like Groudon and Kyogre in check too)
This looks like Zacian-Hero SS ubers situation doesn't it. Zacian needed a choice band to break but deo-a does not (still has the drawback of its moves lowering stats though)
In my opinion, it should be suspected or atleast be considered to be banned.
Check out the BDSP Uber replays!
Finally, I want YOU the reader of this post to post your opinion here. Do you agree it should be banned? Or you think its fine? Lets have some Healthy discussions here. Looking forward to more posts here! Feel free to criticise any point I mentioned.
Thank you for reading this :blobwizard:
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If you play Deo-a with 252 satk and 148 have to run 108 speed. This means you run 399 speed at level 100 so the correct is ev spread is:

Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 144 Atk / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Ice Beam
- Superpower
- Knock Off / Extreme Speed

Now, you outpace all Rash Deo-A or Deo-A that don't use a +speed nature.
Other option is using Rash nature with enough speed for Mewtwo timid in case you prefer more power.

In my opinion, Deo-A is not comparable with Zacian forms. Has zero bulk, a "useless" hability and little switch-in oportunities and needs to predict correctly. Can't revenge priority users like Arceus, Rayquaza or Giratina-O (with sneak). I agree that has difficult counterplay and good versatility. The lead set with Sash also exist in order to put hazards havind better ofensive presence that Deoxys-S.

Baning Deo-A can help with the teambuilder but at the same time is a high-risk high-reward mon. Maybe sounds rare the fact that now can be suspected when was a "fine" pokémon in old generations.


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Ubers Leader
VR slate has been finished, here's the first official viability rankings for BDSP Ubers:

Voting Slate

S Rank:
:arceus: (Normal)

A+ Rank:

A Rank:
:arceus-ghost: :spooky_plate: (Ghost)
:arceus-steel: :iron_plate: (Steel)

A- Rank:
:arceus-fairy: :pixie_plate: (Fairy)

B+ Rank:
:arceus-dark: :dread_plate: (Dark)

B Rank:
:arceus-water: :splash_plate: (Water)

B- Rank:
:arceus-electric: :zap_plate: (Electric)
:arceus-ground: :earth_plate: (Ground)

C+ Rank:
:arceus-grass: :meadow_plate: (Grass)
:arceus-rock: :stone_plate: (Rock)

C Rank:
:arceus-dragon: :draco_plate: (Dragon)
:arceus-fighting: :fist_plate: (Fighting)

C- Rank:
:arceus-flying: :sky_plate: (Flying)
:arceus-ice: :icicle_plate: (Ice)

D Rank:
(This rank is reserved for Pokemon that are Uber by tiering, but are otherwise unviable in Ubers)

:arceus-bug: :insect_plate: (Bug)
:arceus-fire: :flame_plate: (Fire)
:arceus-psychic: :mind_plate: (Psychic)

If you have any questions about the VR feel free to ask here! Sample teams are ideally gonna be in the works soon too, so if anyone has teams with proven tournament success / ladder peaks or that are just consistent all around feel free to drop them.
dead chat xd

So I had a lot of fun playing this tier for open and decided to make a post sharing some cool shit I built (click the mon sprites for the paste). Was originally gonna wait until after the PL to make this but Ubers got cut from that so here we are lmao.

Deo-A + Scizor Balance

I've always been a huge fan of Scizor in this tier, especially after Deo-A got released since it might as well be the hardest counter to that mon. Taking any hit and RKilling with BP is very nice. Speaking of Deo-A, that mon pairs really well with Scizor because it's one of the few mons with a pivot move worth running in Ubers. Rest of the team is overall quite standard, with support Dialga because it's support Dialga, Clefable because I am utterly terrified of EKiller, Arceus-Ghost because I wanted an Arceus form that gave me more offensive pressure since this team didn't have that much of it outside of Deo-A, and then a Scarf Palkia for speed control. I'd talk about what the Clefable and Ghost Arc spreads do but I don't remember LMAO.

Team is a little weaker to groudon than I'd like, but it's still manageable with good play.

Mamoswine Webs

Mamoswine has always been a really cool mon in paper to me because Ground + Ice STAB basically murders the entire tier but it's really slow. I don't really use a lot of HO at all usually, leaning mostly towards balance, but I felt like experimenting with the playstyle more this tour and Webs felt like a perfect fit for Mamo, not only because of the afromentioned reasons but also because it threatens a lot of the defoggers (mainly Tina-O and Steelceus) pretty hard.

Speaking of defoggers, it feels like you really want a couple of Taunt mons to shut down Defog attempts, since the main offensive threats of this team kinda need webs to function, and I went with the obvious choices of Mewtwo and Deo-A, both with 3A Taunt movesets. Rest of the team is just a Specs Ogre because there's not rlly a reason to run Webs without that mon and Arceus-Ghost to prevent Forre from spinning.

Magic Coat Smeargle might be relatively new? I expected people to predict that like twice only for them to get hazards up and almost lose me the game, but it basically just serves as both an anti-hazard option and prevents opposing Taunt. Nuzzle over Spore is also an interesting choice; originally I had it for breaking Sashes and not being completely useless in case of a Taunt getting through, but looking back Spore was definetly better because Sleep is just busted.

CM Roar ArcSteel SpikeStack

The initial thought behind this team was that CM Roar sounded really nice in a tier where CM Wars are so prominent, as well as allowing you to prevent Support Dialga from phazing you. Then I realized "oh shit spikes work really well with this kind of team" and added Deo-D. I think the mon has a lot of potential, behind all the utility (taunt, teleport, knock, twave, almost every fucking hazard) it has as well as being a great answer to non Taunt Mewtwo variants. The rest is mostly self-explanatory; Scarf TWave Palkia might be the only thing that really stands out. It's imo a great way to slow down CM Two, especially paired with something like a Gira-O, which is exactly what this team needs. I'm not a huge fan of this team but the idea behind it is nice and it's still fine aside from a slightly scary EKiller MU.

Deo-S HO with Scarf Jirachi for some fucking reason????

I love this team so much. Half of that is how silly it is and the other half is how it kinda works despite it.

As I stated previously, I felt like trying out more HO this tour, and therefore decided to make a Deo-S team. I thought abt a lot of options for the last move before settling on ESpeed for breaking a potential Rayquaza Sash, as well as having something to threaten Smeargle lead. Just like the Webs team I went with two taunt mons, Mewtwo once again being one of them. Since I unfortunately couldn't use Deo-A I settled on Darkrai instead; it kinda sucks but it's still decently fast and strong and helps with the CM Two MU. Then I went with Arceus-Ghost and Lustrous Palkia for answering dangerous threats to the team (EKiller and Scarf Ogre) while still being dangerous threats in their own right.

For the final slot, I needed something that could offer speed control and also be good into NP Mewtwo/Scarf Dialga/Scarf Palkia, since those currently destroyed my team. My first thought was a Scarf Dialga of my own, which you could probably run as well, but I didn't like the lack of a Dragon resist. I ended up choosing Scarf Jirachi instead; it can't do much damage back to said threats I needed to answer, but it could paralyze them, and it had the advantage of both U-Turn and Healing Wish for getting my damage dealers on the field safely.


Don't really have anything to say for this one tbh lol it's pretty self-explanatory. ParaDance Groudon is a set I wanna play around with more, really interesting mon.

EKiller Balance

I think EKiller is the most threatening mon on the builder by far and the one you need to account for the most, but a way hotter take of mine might be that it's also straight up the hardest mon to fit in the tier (that isn't complete garbage, anyway). Without something like ArcSteel or Ghost, you just get ran over by opposing EKiller, which is why I rarely end up dropping them. EKiller also makes you much worse into something like Ray, which is an issue. I chose to handle EKiller with Clef, and Ray with a PhysDef Groudon. The latter is definetly still a scary matchup, especially if banded, but it can be worked around. The EKiller itself is Jolly Lum, which works very well at luring and 2HKOing Arceus-Ghost and Steel without getting burned in the process, since most only run enough speed investment for Adamant EKiller.

Was gonna write a few more lines detailing my thoughts on the meta overall but I don't really feel like doing that so I'm just gonna end the post here. Hope having more teams avaiable leads to a bit more interest on this tier, as I think it's really fun.
Yeah I may as well post some teams I have in my builder that I have that probably won't get used in PL
I mostly just played these vs friends since I didn't play Ubers when the ladder was still a thing and didn't really follow Ubers until last year's Sendoff Tour.
Click the Pokemon to get the Pokepaste

:forretress: :clefable: :groudon: :arceus: :palkia: :mewtwo:
Chople Arceus Offense

This team is just overall solid; it was meant to use Arceus's Chople Berry to beat Chilan Berry Blaziken, one of its better checks, but is also useful for revenge killing/sweeping NP Mewtwo. Groudon, Clefable, Forretress, and Palkia form a solid core that also checks opposing attackers, and then Mewtwo abuses Forretress's Toxic Spikes. In addition, Mewtwo appreciates Forretress and Arceus weakening Tina-O for it so it can Calm Mind through the rest of the team. Personally I don't like Scarf Palkia since it tends to be too weak vs Bold Kyogre, but I wanted speed control and a Kyogre check in one slot, so Palkia it was.

:deoxys-speed: :mewtwo: :arceus-fairy: :rayquaza: :kyogre: :groudon:
Toxic Spikes Hyper Offense

This team forgoes defensive security in order to bring the pain. It forgoes the commonplace Deoxys-Attack for the more unconventional Deoxys-Speed. I also went Arceus-Fairy instead of Arceus-Normal to take advantage of Dragon moves aimed at Rayquaza, as well as having better neutral coverage in the Ubers tier, as well as stacking up on Calm Minders to overwhelm the opponent with Special offense. Arceus is EV'd more offensive so that it can more easily break through Clefable, though the combination of Mewtwo and Arceus can alone break through Clefable. This team is a bit annoyed by Steel-types, especially Forretress since it doesn't have spinblocking, and the team would rather have Toxic Spikes up to further pressure the opponent.

:deoxys-attack: :groudon: :heatran: :arceus-grass: :giratina-origin: :garchomp:
Toxic Spikes Sun

This is a variant of various Sun archetypes that I had seen in DPP Ubers, where the Heatran in Sun is used to scare away the Poison and Steel types that are immune to Poison. I have tried using Arceus-Dragon as my Water-resist, but ultimately settled on Arceus-Grass since it can also switch into the other Dragon moves of the tier, instead of just dying to them. Giratina-Origin functions as my spin blocker who is also immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, Deoxys-Attack is my Toxic Spikes setter, and I use a Scarf Garchomp here to act as my check to opposing Dragons. This team doesn't really appreciate Shadow Claw variants of EKiller (especially since Heatran invests in Special Defense to ward off Dragons) and is shaky vs Kyogre if Arceus is weakened, but is overall solid with good options vs most offensive threats.

:arceus: :rayquaza: :giratina-origin: :palkia: :blissey: :skarmory:
Priority Spam Balance

This was the first team that I had built for Ubers, and before I had realized how immensly threatening Mewtwo was. I started with Lum EKiller, then then wanted to use Choice Banded Rayquaza since it was the best Pokemon for spamming Flying moves (rip Ho-oh) in the tier. I added Giratina-Origin since from my knowledge, it was very good in DPP Ubers, so I figured it would translate very well here. I then added Palkia as my dedicated Kyogre check, and rounded it out with Skarmory and Blissey since I didn't have better ideas.

This team is solid vs EKiller and most other threats. The only things I personally noticed that I was really weak to was Specially Defensive Lava Plume Groudon, which is still (mostly) playable. Palkia could also feasibly be Choice Specs instead of Leftovers w/ Roar to better beat CM Kyogre.

Overall, the tier is pretty interesting, though building in Ubers isn't something I'm as used to like building for OU or UU, which has less harsh strains on teambuilding.

S/o to Zerkas for helping me when I was getting in to the tier (and teaching me how monstrous Mewtwo is) and Skitty (Skittyrox) and igiveuponaname for playing Ubers w/ me to figure out this tier together
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A face in a cloud no trace in the crowd.
is a Community Contributor
With the BDSP Grand Slam finally coming to a close, I figured I might as well share some teams I made and some thoughts on some lower ranked mons on the VR.

Team Dump

:smeargle: :arceus-dragon: :dialga: :kyogre: :mewtwo: :gengar:
One of the teams I passed to jawabarat which he used during the Grand Slam playoffs, I felt in a bit of an experimental mood when making this one. I wanted to try out Arceus Dragon since it has the highest base speed of any dragon type in Ubers, as well as access to Calm Mind and dragon type Judgement, making it a rather unique sweeper among dragon types in Ubers. I paired it with Dialga in order to pile on more dragon damage while also having strong steel STAB in order to break past Arceus Fairy and Clefable who would otherwise wall Arceus Dragon for days. Sticky Webs were added to the team at this point in order to shore up Dialga's relatively low speed stat as well as make sure that Arceus wouldn't be outsped by any Choice Scarf users like Palkia, Dialga, and Kyogre. Choice Specs Kyogre and Mewtwo were added as two strong special wall breakers who could provide some utility to the team in the form of rain for perfect accuracy Thunders and Taunt to stop Defog and recovery attempts. Lastly, Gengar was chosen as another experimental pick for the team, since it had the qualities I was searching for when finishing the team, namely that of a Ghost type for spinblocking purposes that could also set up and sweep itself. Nasty Plot + Shadow Ball and Focus Blast provides perfect neutral coverage and Taunt serves the same purpose as it does on Mewtwo. While I wouldn't say this team is one of my best creations, it certainly is a lot of fun to use imo.

:forretress: :mewtwo: :arceus-water: :dialga: :giratina-origin: :shaymin-sky:
Another team I made which jawabarat used in Grand Slam playoffs, this time with a more balanced approach with Toxic Spikes and CM+Taunt Mewtwo. After adding the requisite Forretress and Mewtwo, I decided to add Giratina for spin blocking purposes as well as being able to abuse Tspikes nicely with boosted Hexes. Arceus Water was chosen for its ability to check the likes of Groudon, Rayquaza, Ho-oh, and to a lesser extent Kyogre, Palkia, and Dialga. It was chosen as the Stealth Rock user because it could match up well into defog users such as Ho-oh and Giratina, this also let me free up a moveslot on my SpDef Dialga which was really just kind of the standard check to a bunch of stuff like Kyogre, Lugia, bulky Arceus forms, Clefable, etc. Lastly there was Shaymin-Sky who acts as speed control with a Choice Scarf, and can be quite evil alongside Tspikes due to Air Slash flinches messing with the opponent. Healing Wish support is also nice for mons like Giratina who lack recovery in games where they could prove really useful. Aromatherapy can be used over Dazzling Gleam if you want a less suicidal form of support from Skymin, though I try to avoid locking myself into cleric moves on choiced mons. This team can struggle with CM Arceus Dark but if played well enough it should be able to overcome it or you could try to brute force your way past it with Air Slash.

I have other teams but those I'm either not as confident in or I haven't had much chance to test them out so I'll refrain from posting them here for now.

Thoughts on some mons


Gengar has some nice traits, spammable Ghost STAB, high special attack, Nasty Plot, Poison typing which absorbs Tspikes and let's it hit the Fairies with super effective STAB, and a Normal immunity which can help versus Extreme Killer. Unfortunately, it's slower than the two premier Psychic types in the tier, Mewtwo and Deoxys-Attack, and being so frail and weak to their STAB attacks makes life difficult for it. Gengar's frailty means that despite it's high base 110 speed, it needs speed control to be able to actually function properly. I initially tried using a Choice Scarf set on it, with both STABs, Focus Blast, and Destiny Bond in the fourth move slot for surprise trades. In practice though, it was disappointing, as it lacked power due to Shadow Ball's low base power and inability to boost its special attack. It also pretty much mandated being paired with Arceus Fighting in order to deal with answers like Arceus Dark, SpDef Dialga, and Blissey, which limited teambuilding options. I then tried using it with Sticky Webs, as seen in the team mentioned above, and I've personally found the results much more satisfactory. Life Orb and Nasty Plot boosting gives it a more acceptable power level, and being a ghost type lets it block rapid spin, which I find very useful on Sticky Webs teams, as they rely far more on their hazards than other forms of HO. This set is also less dependent on being paired with specific Arceus forms so it isn't as restricting on the team builder. Overall, after experimenting a bit with Gengar, I've found it to be a nice mon to have on certain Sticky Webs teams, but it's reliance on webs makes it an underwhelming mon on other team styles.


Everyone's favourite blazin' kickin' chicken, Blaziken is definitely a lot of fun to use in Ubers despite its flaws. Needing a Swords Dance boost, as well as at least two speed boosts to really threaten most teams as otherwise it would just get outsped by Choice Scarf users makes positioning Blaziken to sweep the opposing team a difficult task. But it can be immensely rewarding to get in that position where you can sweep the opposing team with Blaziken. It's best used on HO teams alongside Groudon imo since it thrives in fast paced games and benefits from Groudon's sun and ability to weaken shared answers like Giratina and bulky Arceus forms. Chilan berry is also a really funny way of stopping Extreme Killer from cutting your sweep short, and the fact that I've never seen other items used on Blaziken makes it even funnier imo.


I never used this mon myself but I fought it early on in the Ubers Open and it was used during the Grand Slam semifinals by Banbadoro. At first I was rather dismissive of it, after all, it's hard walled by Clefable, Arceus Fairy, and Skarmory, while also struggling to break Arceus Steel. But after a bit more thought, I've come to realize that building a team which can clear the way for Scarf Moxie Salamence to clean late game can be worth it. Whether it be using mixed Rayquaza to lure Skarmory with a fire move or using Wobbuffet's trapping capabilities to eliminate roadblocks for Salamence, there are a few ways you can build your team with Salamence in mind. Being a Choice Scarf user immune to Sticky Webs is also a bonus, as it means it can still outspeed and threaten the opposing team even if webs have been placed. I might try building with this mon in the near future, since it seems like a fun option that's also genuinely worthwhile.

I'll end this post by saying that I enjoy this tier a lot and it's by far my favourite non-OU BDSP tier, I honestly regret not trying out the tier (and other lower tiers) while there was still a ladder for it. I also want to shoutout Zerkas for passing me teams when I was first trying out the tier, Grabby for playing games with me whenever I want to test out new teams, and jawabarat for believing in me enough to ask for my advice on the tier during Grand Slam playoffs, you guys are awesome.

i miss her a lot.png

Maybe next year
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A face in a cloud no trace in the crowd.
is a Community Contributor
Hi there, it's me again. Since my last post a few weeks ago I've done a bit more team building in this tier, and since checking speed tiers is often what I find myself doing a lot of the time, I thought it would be useful to write them down somewhere. While Ubers is a tier with crowded speed tiers and lots of mons can be subject to speed creeping specific threats, I figured it would still be helpful to compile the speed tiers and share them on here. I added all the mons listed on the VR (not including D ranks) plus one or two extras, and I'm willing to add or remove any mons if anyone has any suggestions. I hope this could be of help :sphearical:

Speed StatBase SpeedPokemonEVs/IVsNatureBoosts
582127:shaymin-sky:252/31Positive1 :choice-scarf:
492100:palkia: :salamence:252/31Positive1 :choice-scarf:
45990:kyogre: :dialga:252/31Positive1 :choice-scarf:
41890:kyogre: :dialga:252/31Neutral1 :choice-scarf:

Speed StatBase SpeedPokemonEVs/IVsNatureBoosts
394130:mewtwo: :aerodactyl:252/31Positive0
372120:arceus: :dugtrio:252/31Positive0
350110:lugia: :gengar:252/31Positive0
339120:arceus: :dugtrio:252/31Neutral0
328100:palkia: :manaphy:252/31Positive0
30690:giratina-origin: :kyogre: :groudon: :dialga: :lucario: :deoxys-defense:252/31Positive0
27990:giratina-origin: :kyogre: :groudon: :dialga: :lucario:252/31Neutral0
26090:groudon: :kyogre: :dialga: :giratina-origin:176/31Neutral0
22695:gliscor: :xatu:0/31Neutral0
21690:giratina: :giratina-origin: :kyogre: :groudon: :ho-oh: :dialga: :deoxys-defense:0/31Neutral0

Speed StatBase SpeedPokemonEVs/IVsNatureBoosts
10233:wobbuffet: :bronzong:0/31Neutral0
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A face in a cloud no trace in the crowd.
is a Community Contributor
The BDSP Ubers Open is almost upon us! With attention being drawn to this tier once again, I wanted to write something to help people wanting to try learning this tier. There are many different topics that I wanted to write about, and I wanted it to be about something (relatively) simple but still interesting enough to write about (and hopefully read too). And so I present to you...

:ss/mewtwo: The Beginner's Guide to PsySpam in BDSP Ubers :ss/deoxys-attack:
How to build it, how to play it, and how to beat it.

PsySpam is a powerful and somewhat popular team archetype in BDSP Ubers which is very fun to use in my opinion but also very punishing to play against if you don't quite know how to play around it. Its combination of high natural speed and sheer destructive power lets it shred through defensive cores with ease when played well while also stifling slower offensive builds. This post will go through the basics of building a PsySpam team, how to operate it in battle, and how you can beat it when playing against it.


How to Build it

PsySpam has a rather simple framework which makes it rather quick and easy to build but still lends it enough flexibility so that every team doesn't look and operate the exact same way, although similarities will be seen between a lot of teams.

PsySpam teams will usually follow the basic structure seen below:
Arceus Forme


We'll go through each slot and take a brief look at their role on PsySpam.


The first member of your PsySpam core, Mewtwo's high Special Attack and Speed, myriad of coverage and utility options, and a great STAB move in Psystrike makes it a phenomenal offensive threat in Ubers. It's a very difficult mon for opponents to safely scout without risking big damage on their team, which is helped out by the fact that Mewtwo is decently customizable in its offensive output. Usually it will be running Psystrike, two coverage options, and a utility move on these sorts of team. Mewtwo will primarily be acting as a fast wallbreaker and revenge killer for your team, and what utility move it chooses can help it in breaking down more defensive structures. Taunt is the main choice, it mainly helps in preventing recovery and status moves as well as blocking potential Defog attempts, Nasty Plot helps in breaking opposing teams immediately and can turn Mewtwo into a fearsome sweeper if the conditions are right, and Recover is the least common option but it gives Mewtwo some longevity which can prove to be its downfall at times.


The second member of your PsySpam core, Deoxys-Attack (henceforth referred to as Deo-A) is an incredibly volatile offensive threat, being next to impossible to counter but being extremely vulnerable to mons which seek to out-offense it with either priority or with a Choice Scarf due to its immense frailty. The strength of Life Orb Psycho Boost alone is enough to plow through many neutral targets, and with access to strong coverage options in the form of Superpower, Knock Off, Extreme Speed, Ice Beam, and more, Deo-A acts as both a great revenge killer and a phenomenal mixed breaker for PsySpam.

Arceus Forme

Having some forme of Arceus is basically mandatory on any BDSP Ubers team, and PsySpam is no different. The defensive backbone provided by Arceus formes through natural bulk and typing is key in letting PsySpam not crumple against opposing offense. There are many types of Arceus to choose from, but there are also always some types which are better than others for certain team styles. I'll list in the spoiler tab below the possible Arceus formes which can be used on PsySpam.

The Best Formes
These formes are usually the best options to pick from when building your PsySpam team, they synergize well defensively and/or offensively with your double Psychic core and can provide extra utility if needed. These formes are recommended for people new to building PsySpam.

Thanks to its great bulk and excellent typing, Arceus-Fairy is a great defensive Arceus forme on PsySpam, being able to take on the many dragons in the tier while also providing a crucial resistance to Dark for your team. Provides good utility with Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave, and even Stealth Rocks which can free up slots elsewhere on your team, and acts a good check to physical attackers like Groudon, Rayquaza, Ekiller, while also answering dragons like Palkia, Giratina, and non Flash Cannon Dialga. Offensive sets have their merits but in my opinion they don't work well on PsySpam due to coverage issues at times.

Arceus-Dark offers an arguably better defensive typing for PsySpam than Fairy thanks to its resistance to both Dark and Ghost while also threatening opposing Psychic types with your STAB Judgment on top of being immune to their own STAB moves. Arceus-Dark can take up a defensive role similar to Arceus-Fairy or if it so wishes it can run offensive sets which can be difficult to answer defensively if it has the right coverage options, such as Focus Blast for opposing Darks and Steels, Thunder for Ho-oh, or even Sludge Bomb for the Fairies.

Running Arceus-Ghost will stack weaknesses to Dark and Ghost on your team which can be undesirable at times. However from an offensive perspective it is perhaps the best Arceus forme you can choose from when building a PsySpam team. With the lack of Ghost resists in the tier, it is a very difficult mon to answer once it starts boosting up with Calm Mind. PsySpam teams with Arceus Ghost can overcome their defensive gaps with good and aggressive play. It also provides a nice Normal immunity which can be nice in blocking Extreme Speed revenge killing attempts as well as blocking Forretress' Rapid Spin in order to keep your hazards up.

The Lesser Formes
These formes are usually harder to justify fitting onto your PsySpam team since they lack as much natural synergy with your double Psychic core compared to the formes seen above. However they can still be used if you need their specific traits and can open up different avenues for building which would otherwise not be possible.

Arceus-Steel is an all-around great mon who provides loads of defensive utility based off of typing, bulk, and speed, but who also happens to not cover key weaknesses to Dark and Ghost for your PsySpam core. While this makes it less desirable overall, its good traits can be of use to some PsySpam teams, for example, its typing makes it a great check to all the priority users in the tier who can threaten your PsySpam core immensely if you're not careful. Its dominant match up into Clefable is also something to note, as it makes running Nasty Plot on Mewtwo a more plausible option since being soft checked by Clef isn't as much of a concern anymore.

Arceus-Rock compresses a Stealth Rock setter, a check to Ekiller, and a check to Flying-types (Ho-oh, Lugia, Rayquaza) which could be annoying for your PsySpam core to deal with in one way or another. However it lacks a way to hurt Steel types aside from the non threatening Forretress which can prove to be an issue at times. Rock is also a mediocre defensive typing in general and it can open up holes against strong Water, Ground, and Steel types which can be a hassle to cover with the rest of your team. While its advantages are unique and helpful, the downsides it brings are a big reason why it's down in the lesser formes.

Ekiller offers PsySpam very little in the way of defensive utility with its lack of resistances and not often investing into its bulk but it can provide a good check to opposing offensive teams thanks to its strong STAB Extreme Speed. Being able to bypass most team's speed control options in (mostly slower) priority users and scarfers can really help PsySpam in the trade fests played against HO and offense. It also appreciates the Psychics breaking past defensive backbones that it would struggle with hard but so long as those backbones remain healthy it will have a tough time making progress which is why it's less seen on PsySpam compared to other Arceus formes.

:ss/forretress: :SS/Scizor:

While your PsySpam breaker duo have a ton of power at their disposal, their lack of defensive utility means they won't have many opportunities to switch in and cause havoc on their own. If you want to make the most of their breaking power, you'll need a dedicated pivot to help bring them in to battle as much as possible. Unfortunately due to the lack of viable pivot move users in the tier, this slot ends up being the most rigid out of all your non-Psychic breaker mons.

Forretress is by far the best and most common choice for a pivot on PsySpam teams due to its excellent role compression with access to Rapid Spin, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Volt Switch. You will be seeing it on perhaps 90%+ of PsySpam teams in this tier. The spikes it lays help PsySpam break down opposing teams even easier than before, and Rapid Spin not removing the hazards you've laid down helps alleviate pressure on your team without slowing down your onslaught against the opposing team. Forretress' great matchups into the common HO leads of Deo-S, Deo-A, and Smeargle helps to prevent early momentum from HO teams which could prove troublesome if they get too many hazards off early game. While it does lack longevity due to lack of recovery it can stick around for a bit if you pivot it in on weak attacker or walls unable to threaten it, which also gives it the opportunity to lay more hazards or pivot to one of your breakers. In general Forretress is just a solid mon which is hard to justify not using as your pivot on PsySpam teams.

If you choose not to use Forretress, Scizor is most likely what you'll be choosing to run instead. It offers the same defensive profile as Forretress but with some cool perks such as recovery in the form of Roost, priority Bullet Punch, and a stronger pivot move in STAB U-turn. What makes Scizor less desirable compared to Forretress though is its lack of role compression as well as not being as effective of a hazard remover. Not having access to the coveted Spikes and even more coveted Toxic Spikes is a huge blow to Scizor since PsySpam heavily appreciates those hazards as a means of pressuring the opponent. Defog is also less desirable for PsySpam teams since removing hazards from the opponent's side of the field effectively resets all momentum those teams thrive heavily on. While it is true Rapid Spin can by blocked by Ghost types, Defog being blocked by Taunt, on top of having worse matchups into common HO leads means Scizor will generally have more issues of keeping hazards clear for its teammates. Ultimately Scizor plays at the same pace as Forretress but with some cool offensive tools and a bit more longevity in place of the much sought after utility options offered by the Bagworm Pokemon.

There are other potential options for pivots on PsySpam such as Gliscor or even more niche options like Magnezone but these are usually not recommended for the majority of teams due to either mismatching with the usual pace of PsySpam teams (Gliscor for example) or because they lack utility options which are usually filled in by this slot (Magnezone for example).

Filler Slots
:ss/groudon: :ss/dialga: :ss/giratina-origin:

Now all that's left to talk about are the filler slots, you've got two of these to work with so be sure to use them wisely. You can use these to fill in defensive gaps, provide extra utility, or enhance your offenses versus mons which may be troublesome to take down. Some options for these slots are listed below.

Groudon is so good and common on PsySpam it could almost be considered its own unique slot instead of a filler option. In one slot it can provide a strong physical attacker capable of threatening Steel types with ease, a check to physical threats like Ekiller, Rayquaza, and opposing Groudon, a reliable Stealth Rock user, and the potential for boosting in either Swords Dance or Rock Polish. Groudon's sun helps in playing around strong Water threats of course and also boosts Mewtwo's Fire Blast should it choose to run it as a coverage move. Simply put one of the most reliable and consistent filler options on PsySpam.

Dialga is a solid offensive option for PsySpam with good defensive utility with its great natural bulk and nice typing helping it play around threats like Kyogre, Palkia, Shaymin-Sky, and more. Choice Scarf is solid since it offers PsySpam some good speed outside of your Psychic breaker duo, while offensive Stealth Rocks sets offer solid utility without letting up on power. Defensive sets offer a sturdier backbone if needed but lack the immediate pressure PsySpam teams thrive on.

Palkia is a great offensive option on PsySpam thanks to its high speed and good STAB combination making it difficult to switch into. Choice Scarf sets are usually the most common on PsySpam teams since it gets the jump on most other scarfers in the tier as well as speed boosting threats like Rayquaza and Blaziken. It also has a meaty resistance to Water and Fire which can help PsySpam teams play around threats like Kyogre or annoying defensive checks like Ho-oh.

Giratina-Origin offers a solid bulky offensive threat for PsySpam who can check the likes of Groudon, Ekiller, opposing Psychics, and choice locked Water mons. Immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes helps with longevity and immunity to Rapid Spin helps keep up the pressure versus Forretress teams. Also offers good utility with status moves and solid strength with Draco Meteor and potentially boosted Hexes. Main issue is the lack of recovery and the fact that it stacks weaknesses to Dark and Ghost even further than normal.

Kyogre is a known quantity: a strong special attacker that douses everything with its strong Water moves. This makes it a great check to Ho-oh on PsySpam that's capable of forcing lots of damage against opposing teams easily. Like Palkia and Dialga, it works well as a scarfer on these teams, but other sets like Specs and Calm Mind do have their place as well.

Shaymin-Sky provides PsySpam with the fastest scarfer in the tier and access to Healing Wish to give your Psychic breakers a second chance at life. Unfortunately it invites in a lot of mons that PsySpam doesn't like dealing with 1-on-1 like Steel types or Ho-oh which is why it's not often seen on these sorts of teams although the unique utility can be worth it at times.


How to Play it

Now your team is ready, but you need to actually pilot it. This section will go over the basic game plan for PsySpam teams and how to navigate around certain threats to your team.

:mewtwo: The Basic Game Plan :deoxys-attack:
Despite the name of the playstyle and the heavy focus on the two Psychics in this post, winning with either of your Psychic duo is oftentimes not the main goal for PsySpam. In most situations when using PsySpam your main goal will be to use the Psychics to break down the opponent's defenses so hard that you can clean up late game with a scarfer or a set up sweeper.

At the beginning of most games you'll want to get down your hazards early with Forretress or your Stealth Rock setter so that attempts from the opponent to pivot around your Psychics don't go entirely unpunished as you try and break past their defenses. If you can at this point try pivoting to one of your Psychics and start threatening stuff assuming something is in range of their attacks, if they take the hit and die they'll probably try and revenge with a priority user or a scarfer so switch out since they'll likely be playing a trading game if this is how they choose to deal with PsySpam early on. If they switch out to something bulky that can take your hits then try and keep up the pressure with any coverage options you may have so that any defensive counter play will have to remain wary. Revenge killing is best left to whichever Psychic has the better match up versus whatever is on the field or your scarfer if you have one. Once the opposing team is worn down enough or both your Psychics are down you should be seeking to end the game with either one of your set up threats (Calm Mind users like Arceus or Kyogre, Swords Dance and/or Rock Polish Groudon) or cleaning up with a scarfer (Dialga, Palkia, Kyogre for example).

Of course what I've said here is more on paper than in practice, so while it may be your main game plan, in an actual game you'll have to consider your opponent's choices as well which can cause deviations from this basic plan.

:giratina-origin: Threats to avoid and how to deal with them :rayquaza:
Priority is of course the number one threat to PsySpam since your Psychics will be accruing tons of chip damage from hazards and Life Orb recoil which puts them into range of strong priority dangerously quick. In order to deal with it you'll want to minimize damage received from hazards so that you can remain as healthy as possible with your Psychics. In lots of cases though you'll have to swap your Psychics out of the priority user and go to something that can handle it like your Arceus or one of your filler options and scare out the opposing threat. In a similar vein Choice Scarf users from the opponent can be handled in the same manner.

Speed boosting set up sweepers such as Rock Polish and Double Dance Groudon, Dragon Dance Rayquaza, and Speed Boost Blaziken can all be big threats if given the opportunity to set up especially since PsySpam's defensive backbone is usually on the frailer side. The simplest tip for dealing with these mons is to apply constant offensive pressure so that they don't find the opportunity to set up easily, this means keeping your pivot off the field as much as possible since they're the easiest team member for opponents to set up against. Alternatively you can try revenge killing with faster Choice Scarf users if you have them or handling them with defensive Arceus or a bulky Groudon for instance.

Hazards can be annoying for PsySpam to deal with but Sticky Webs are effectively a death sentence if they go up and are maintained since they cut off your naturally higher speed tiers versus most opponents. In these situations your best bet is to lead Forretress and spam Rapid Spin as much as possible against their Smeargle until it either switches out or dies. If the opponent counter leads Forretress then switch out to preserve it and hope they don't double to Smeargle as you do so. If such a situation concerns you however, feel free to give your Forretress a Focus Sash in order to at least get a free hazard in order to break Smeargle's sash, which makes setting up webs for it much much harder.


How to Beat it

As I said earlier, PsySpam is absolutely brutal to play against if you don't know how to play around it or don't prepare for it while building. This section will offer tips on how to handle PsySpam in battle and steps you can take to account for it in the builder.

Steps you can take in the builder

:arceus: Priority :giratina-origin:
Priority is an easy way to deal with PsySpam's main core due to the amount of chip damage Mewtwo can incur from hazards and Life Orb recoil, and Deo-A imploding at the sight of any move with +1 priority or higher. There are a decent amount of priority users in the tier to choose from, including Arceus, Rayquaza, Giratina-Origin, your own Deo-A, Scizor, Lucario, and Cloyster, so you aren't necessarily strapped for options. Do keep in mind that if you're relying on priority to help deal with PsySpam to not let your users get into range of Deo-A's Extreme Speed.

:palkia: Scarfers :dialga:
Another way outspeeding and beating PsySpam to the punch offensively, much of what can be said about priority can also apply here. Common scarfers are Dialga, Palkia, Kyogre, and Shaymin-Sky, all of whom are good mons which shouldn't be too much of a hassle to fit on a team one way or another. Though like with priority users, do keep in mind to keep your scarfers outside of Deo-A's Extreme Speed range.

:smeargle: Sticky Webs :shuckle:
Sticky Webs are perhaps the hardest method of speed control to pull off versus PsySpam due to Forretress' ubiquity on these teams. However if you can properly lay down Sticky Webs and maintain them, you would cut off a huge source of PsySpam's pressure in its naturally high speed tiers. Smeargle is the most common and best Sticky Webs setter thanks to it being somewhat fast, having access to Spore to help it set up hazards safely, and an infitinely deep movepool which can conjure up any utility you desire. Where Smeargle falls flat however is its inability to reliably keep up hazards versus Forretress, who is immune to Spore thanks to Overcoat. The only semi-consistent way for Smeargle to keep up hazards versus Forretress is through slotting in Nuzzle and hoping for a full paralysis turn as webs go up.
Shuckle is also an option for Sticky Webs but is much, much less preferred overall since it is much slower, more exploitable, and lacks Smeargle's vast array of utility. Shuckle's low speed can be turned to its advantage versus PsySpam however, as since it is naturally slower than Forretress, it can get up webs reliably and swap out to a spinblocker the following turn. This line of play still has its issues since it lets Forretress get a free layer of hazards and switching to a ghost the following turn is a very predictable play which can't afford to not be done since losing your hazards can slow down your momentum hard.

:arceus-dark: Sturdy defensive cores :Ho-oh:
While I did say earlier that PsySpam is capable of slicing through defensive cores with ease, that doesn't rule them out as an option for dealing with it. Having team member with a Psychic resistance or immunity plus another one who can resist the common coverage moves or at least take them decently well and threaten out the Psychic breakers is a simple and basic way to cover your defensive bases versus PsySpam, though it must be backed up with good and careful play.

Some examples of basic 2 mon combos can include the following:
:arceus-dark: + :ho-oh:
Arceus-Dark possesses a rare Psychic immunity but doesn't like taking Fighting coverage which Ho-oh patches up nicely especially with the bonus of Regenerator healing off any hits it takes with ease.

:dialga: + :giratina-origin:
Dialga resists Psychic and baits out coverage moves that Giratina either resists or is immune to which it can use to pivot in and threaten a Shadow Sneak.

:arceus-steel: + :giratina-origin:
Same principle as Dialga + Tina-O.

:scizor: + :kyogre: or :palkia: with :choice-scarf:
Scizor is less common but it 1v1s Deo-A and can check Mewtwo lacking Fire coverage well with U-turn, the scarf Water mon helps in dealing with any potential Fire coverage while also threatening the Psychics out in return.

:Arceus-dark: + :Clefable:
Clefable resists any fighting coverage that might be thrown towards Arceus-Dark while also soft checking Nasty Plot variants of Mewtwo, Arceus in return blanks Psycho Boosts from Deo-A which would destroy Clefable with ease.

Of course you can use cores not listed above and you can go beyond simply two mons to fortify your defensive cores even further, just be sure to cover other threats in the metagame while doing so.

Tips on how to play around PsySpam in battle

Be proactive with Calm Mind users: While PsySpam does have its fair share of physical power, it is still primarily a specially oriented team style. As such, being proactive with Calm Mind users such as Arceus formes, Kyogre, or even Clefable and Giratina formes can create uncomfortable situations for the PsySpam player. Oftentimes this can create situations where they need to trade damage with Mewtwo Psystrike in order to get the Calm Mind user within range of something else on the team, or bait Deo-A to use certain moves like Superpower against an Arceus-Steel for example, both of which are examples that can be taken advantage of by the Calm Mind user. Do be wary of Toxic Spikes though as they can help PsySpam dissuade Calm Mind users from trying to set up and cause some damage.

Hazards are your best friend: Since PsySpam relies on Forretress the majority of the time to remove hazards, laying a bunch of hazards and pairing them with a spinblocker can put a good deal of pressure on PsySpam teams as it pushes their threats closer and closer to the edge. Try and figure out what sort of hazards would be most effective on team preview too; if they have no mons immune to Spikes, those should be a priority over rocks, if they appear be weaker to Toxic Spikes, try and get those up, they really help against Arceus formes.

Keep your checks as healthy as possible: The biggest "no shit" of them all but still important to keep in mind when battling PsySpam, it's a team style that thrives on pressuring shared checks and trading so as long as you can keep your checks as healthy as possible while also getting them in as much as possible you can do fine.

Get rid of the Psychics: To deal with PsySpam, just eliminate the Psychics, no shit. While PsySpam's end goal is more commonly centered around set up threats and scarfers in the back, their reliance on the Psychics to do the early game breaking means that eliminating or neutering them early on can help preserve your defenses as much as possible for the remaining threats in the back.


Example Replays and Teams

Replays (BDSPPL I, Week 5) (BDSPPL I, Semifinals) (Grand Slam 2023, Finals)

Unfortunately due to the replay purge these are the only tournament replays involving PsySpam that can still be viewed today.

Teams (Offensive Darkceus) (Defensive Double Status Fairyceus) (Offensive Ghostceus)


And that's pretty much covers the basics of PsySpam in BDSP Ubers, of course there is more to this tier than PsySpam but I wanted to write about it this time around, maybe in the future I'll write some more about different topics. In the meantime you can learn more about the tier from experience which you can plenty of during the upcoming Ubers Open, so be sure to sign up for it when the time comes. :sphearical:

Also be sure to join us on the BDSP Metagames Discord if you aren't there already!

And lastly the challenge code for this tier since it isn't posted anywhere on the forums lol:
/challenge gen8bdspou @@@ +uber, +drizzle, +shadow tag, +arena trap, +moody, +kings rock, +razor fang​
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Tough Scene
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Since bdsp ubers open is gonna start soon, here's a few samples from our Ubers Council to get y'all started.

:Clefable: :Arceus: :Dialga: :Groudon: :Kyogre: :Giratina-Origin: - Ekiller Balance by VTMagno
:Deoxys-Attack: :Arceus: :Dialga: :Groudon: :Clefable: :Ho-Oh: - DeoA + Sub Ekiller BO by Fc
:Arceus-Poison: :Giratina-Origin: :Kyogre: :Gliscor: :Dialga: :Mewtwo: - Poisonceus CM Mewtwo by Fc
:Arceus-Steel: :Groudon: :Gastrodon: :Dialga: :Giratina-Origin: :Shaymin-Sky: - Sub CM Steelceus Balance by Fc
:Arceus-Ground: :Kyogre: :Dialga: :Giratina-Origin: :Ho-oh: :Mewtwo: - CM Groundceus + NP Mewtwo and Scarf Ogre by Fc

We will update these as time goes on!


A face in a cloud no trace in the crowd.
is a Community Contributor
Ubers Open is done now so I'm going to team dump some stuff I used during the tour.

:arceus-dark: :lugia: :blissey: :clefable: :giratina: :dialga:

Stall is honestly a horrible match up fish in this tier with its only decent matchup being HO but I used this twice in the tour and it won both times so yea. Honestly a very standard stall team with the only notable thing being payback + extreme speed on darkceus which I slotted in to make the CM Mewtwo and Deoxys Attack matchups more tolerable. Didn't exactly come to mind when I was slotting them in but it also makes it a good anti-lead vs Deoxys HO leads so neat.

Scarf Kyogre + Lustrous Palkia
:kyogre: :palkia: :arceus-ground: :dialga: :clefable: :giratina-origin:

Without a Blissey or Gastrodon it's very difficult to withstand the dual Water assault from Kyogre and Palkia which is why I started the team off with these two. Scarf Water Spout can force tons of damage early game and Lustrous Palkia under rain is a very difficult mon to switch into, Groundceus was added for its good matchups into common hazard setters as a defogger while also being a nice check to physical mons, standard Spdef Dialga, Clefable, and physical Giratina were added to round out the team.

Scarf Salamence HO
:deoxys-speed: :rayquaza: :salamence: :arceus-steel: :kyogre: :mewtwo:

This team fucking sucks and bringing it to finals was honestly a throw on my end. But if you want more info about it then here we go I guess. Rayquaza and Salamence share a few checks so the idea is to wear them down with Deoxys' hazards and Rayquaza's pressure so that Scarf Mence can clean up late game. Steelceus is added to check the fairies and dragons that snipe the two of them on top of being a good win condition in its own right. Kyogre and Mewtwo were tossed on because I don't know. Why did I make this. Why did I bring this. Don't use this.

Double Dance Groudon + Mixed Rayquaza HO
:arceus: :groudon: :rayquaza: :deoxys-speed: :mewtwo: :giratina-origin:

The HO I should have loaded in finals. I made this the night before I played Baddy and it worked out really well despite not testing it. Extreme Killer, Groudon, and Rayquaza are used to overload physical checks in order to facilitate a sweep for one of them. Mewtwo was added for standard strong special damage and disruption with Taunt, and Giratina was slotted last to stop Forretress Rapid Spin, using a Calm Mind + Hex set with Thunder Wave to punish checks trying to stay in.

Substitute Calm Mind Arceus-Dark
:arceus-dark: :ho-oh: :dialga: :palkia: :clefable: :giratina-origin:

Barring Clefable and Arceus-Fairy (and Arceus-Dark itself) there are few Dark resists in this tier which made mono-attacking Darkceus an interesting option when I was building with Substitute being used to punish status and general passive mons such as Forretress. Whirlwind Ho-oh walls the two fairies and denies Clefable Wish recovery while also being a good defogger in general. Spdef Dialga, Scarf Palkia, and Clefable were added for a rocker/special check, speed control, and anti-setup respectively, and Giratina was added for a second defogger in case Ho-oh has issues with Dialga paralyzing it with Thunder while also being a good check to stuff such as Groudon, Extreme Killer, and Deoxys formes.
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